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TOPIC: Low Levels
#1207
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
The whole split party etc can be done and be done very well. Fall of the Hold of Azad had everyone together then split into 3 different parties all doing seperate stuff but all intertwined. That was my first event back and I had a fantastic time with both being sent out with other low levels to do stuff on are own and being 'advised' by the more senior players on how to fight, plot etc.

I have to say that I thought last weekend was superb with the whole mixed party thing and the live site.

To end, i'm looking to start a new character aswell.

Mark.
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#1208
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 3  
I have always liked mixed rank missions, however there has usually been a tacit understanding previously that while out of base one group doesn't directly assist the other (eg if there's a big fight with monsters calling triple etc the high levels don't just wade in and chop them all to bits). This is because the high levels tend to devalue the efforts of the lower status group - if not the efforts then certainly the 'journey'.

On the last mission several of the high levels were sidetracked to the low level group. Now while I don't mind this per se; I feel it's a little unbalancing for the low status group. If the low levels need a healer (which they did this time) it was up to the high levels to support them - but in turn it's a little unfair on those who were playing in order to adventure with their peers only to be with a bunch of strangers

I understand that part of the experience is division of labour & resources - however if people start thinking 'oh I hope I don't get stuck with the low/high group' it is surely self defeating?
Fortunatley I don't think there was any of that feeling at Consall - we all mucked in as assigned and had a great time (well I did anyway ).

(I was wondering if perhaps the low levels [with a few exceptions] went on the high status mission at the weekend and vice versa )

While the post has been derailed a little to the side with the talk of heroes - and maybe it *is* an age of heroes now.
I was wondering perhaps the title of hero is something granted in recognition of the events & deeds of a calendar year - as one looks back in retrospect.
Thus rank 35 BigBob MacSmite who went on all 3 5-day 'heroquests' in one year is named Hero of the
Alliance as opposed to thrice hero as is the current norm.
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#1209
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
jemross wrote:
While the post has been derailed a little to the side with the talk of heroes - and maybe it *is* an age of heroes now.
I was wondering perhaps the title of hero is something granted in recognition of the events & deeds of a calendar year - as one looks back in retrospect.
Thus rank 35 BigBob MacSmite who went on all 3 5-day 'heroquests' in one year is named Hero of the
Alliance as opposed to thrice hero as is the current norm.


A nice suggestion about an IC way to deal with that particular issue, Jem.

What do you think, though, about getting so many 'Hero abilities' so quickly? Will this lessen the challenge, and the sense of achievement?

Cheers,

D.
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#1212
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 26  
Funnily enough I was commenting to Pete just the other day how I thought the title of Hero had recently been devalued.

I too like the idea that you can only gain one hero ability per year & also be named hero once per year (from any of the quest events).

Otherwise I think the spate of hero abilities will unbalance the system - they were originally meant to be "special" and currently we seem to be on a road to make them almost routine.

We haven't run any quests as yet this year, so to my mind still have the opportunity to keep the title of hero as a gold standard as it were.

Sarah
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#1213
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 4  
So, I'm going to make myslef _really_ unpopular...

I like more HQ's a year.

With the way the membership schemes are structured it supports the business to have more 5 days.

I quite accept that in the 'old days' HQ's were considered harder than 'normal' 5 days, but frankly I think that varied from Ref to Ref.

Before I make my suggested solution, I will channel the memories of my (much) younger and thinner self.

Just before HQ5 I remember sitting in the pub with SFB debating the suggested change that only three people on a HQ would get hero status (whatever that meant). The observation being that if this wasn't done 'everyone would have a Hero character'. At the time I argued that this smacked of 'nepotisim' and would favour the in-crowd.

Time moves on and here we are again where (rightly so I think) anyone who makes the effort can eventually get a character to Hero status.

I'm very glad we didn't adopt the 3 per rule, as I think thatwould have been very destructive, much as the extra points for 'skill' & 'rp' were in the end.

So, here we go with my solution.

Kill more people on HQ's

The KFW HQ (hardly old school by any means) had something like 28 deaths between the pre and HQ.

That averages about 1.5 per character in the party.

Now think about that being the average and trying to do all three in a year as the same character...

Yes you can get Res chances back from the King, monstering and Morogar's inheritance... but doing more than one HQ in a row should be _very_ scarey and _very_ difficult.

With the above ways of recovering Res chances, I simply think we can make HQ's much nastier again

Cheers,
Fraser

<Flame me, go on you know you want too>
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Last Edit: 2009/04/02 20:02 By fraserbohm.
 
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#1216
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 1  
As someone who is a new player doing the may heroquest, obviously this affects me quite a bit

Firstly, yes, I fully expect to be hideously outclassed. Hopefully what healing and magic I have (mainly flashing probably) will be handy, but I know that I'll likely be spending a fairly hefty chunk of the event hiding behind people/trees/buildings/objects/anything I can find!

More relevantly, I agree with the assessment of the "Hero" title - from a perspective of a newbie it is nice to have something to look at as a major achievement for the future.

Of the suggestions, I think I prefer Fraser's idea of making them harsher to play, as that means that having done it feels more like work, and doesn't mean it is so hard to get on the events to try for it.

Once a year also seems a reasonable option, but I'd expect that people will just try to play multiple characters, which would mean a larger quantity of characters who have it in the long run.

It might be possible to find some middle group on the second option though - perhaps say you can only have one hero ability for every X quantity of points the character is - perhaps use the 640/1280 breaks (and beyond) as good borderlines for when you're able to pick up an extra? You could then seperate the "Hero" title from the possession of hero abilities, meaning that it doesn't matter how many Heroquests the person has done, they're still a Hero, not a Hero to the Xth degree?


On the matter of low only games, I think part of this is a matter of just how horrendous an actual starting character is. The points "loan" system seems to work quite well, but if the games are all going to be mixed, I'd suggest possibly setting a base level of 50 or so points rather than starting on zero, since it will mean that starting characters are more survivable (and more importantly can feel useful).

However, if you want to make it a low only game in November I'd be up for it - I'm already booked, but I was looking at probably starting a second, more combat oriented, character later in the year, and it would probably be a good time to do it
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#1217
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
portilis wrote:

It might be possible to find some middle group on the second option though - perhaps say you can only have one hero ability for every X quantity of points the character is - perhaps use the 640/1280 breaks (and beyond) as good borderlines for when you're able to pick up an extra? You could then seperate the "Hero" title from the possession of hero abilities, meaning that it doesn't matter how many Heroquests the person has done, they're still a Hero, not a Hero to the Xth degree?


Hi Mike,

This is an interesting idea. I thought of suggesting something similar too; my main worry was that this would just widen the gap between higher and lower level characters in a situation where multi-level parties are the new norm. (And there are already 64+, 128+ and 256+ specific skills.)

Best,

D.
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#1218
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
fraserbohm wrote:
So, here we go with my solution.

Kill more people [or at least their characters] on HQ's


And make getting extra res chances harder, if it's to be possible at all...

(Because otherwise, what's the fear in death?)

But that's in addition to my already draconian suggestions, of course!

Flame me too!

D.

P.S. Agree with what you said about the bad old days with bonus points, etc., Frase.

P.P.S. But obviously I am not advocating a return to the Happy Valley Days!
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#1219
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
What about 'champion' abilities, a sort of watered down HQ ability and then a 'full' HQ ability being granted after either a pre determined number of points/time or 5 day events.
For example, if someone did all 3 HQ's this year they would get 2 'champion' abilities and 1 HQ ability

My 2p's worth.
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#1222
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 1  
I rather like the Champion Abilities idea, the tricky bit will be balancing them against the existing Hero abilities in order to make them useful enough to be desired but not powerful enough to compete with the existing ones.

That said, looking through the list I think there are a few that could possibly have "lesser" versions without too much trouble, and even possibly a couple that would be feasible to make Champion abilities as is.

I'm not entirely sure about the entire "year-based" limit though, I think it should be something more based around in-character limits than out-of-character timing - some people will have years where they can afford the cash and time to make all the heroquests and years where they can't make any, and it seems a little unfair to base it on that. Possibly on a total quantity of HQs played rather than year based though?
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