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TOPIC: Low Levels
#1260
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 8  
yep Ok agree with the warrior versus priest thing but its difficult to summarise all the ramifications in one post - I was also toying with (start screaming now) shields being a warrior only skill - although one thought was that there are shield, shield mastery & enhanced mastery allowing for small, medium & large shields and only warriors have access to masteries

balancing buffs against natural armour always a problem....

damaging spells - absolutely but was talking about physical AC intially - MAC & PAC also need a look at - I did say that the system is holistic

I like the base damage idea you have although was also thinking about ease of battleboarding with the AC1-5 thing and everyone takes single as a minimum...

"Come and play and develop a powerful character over the course of years" is a very different system model to "come and develop a character who will be slightly more durable over the course of the next few years"

yes it is, but isnt that the point (I feel we do need a different system model as attitude to events - "all welcome" requires it) - turn your statement on its head -

"come and play a character thats really weak when compared to the other people on the event who have been playing a long time and we'll give you some stuff to stop you from being killed out of hand"

also being "powerful" against what yardstick? being able to cast 20 level 5's is powerful when compared to a newbie...
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#1262
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 14  
Phew, lots to reply to...

* I like the idea of assigning HQ specific titles rather than just Hero.
* I also like the idea of not necessarily every HQ giving you the title, just an ability. Who cares if person X has 5 cool abilities?
* I too am starting a new character, November is a likey event for me to send him on.
* As for mixed parties, I've been on both sides of this playing a lower level character in a high level party and a high(ish) level in a party with lows and in my experience the "guild assistance" idea is working really well and I think mixed events are fine.
Guild assistance lets you get a bit more involved and most characters can do something in every fight. It all helps.

L8R,
Adam.
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#1263
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 20  
"come and play a character thats really weak when compared to the other people on the event who have been playing a long time and we'll give you some stuff to stop you from being killed out of hand"
Touche Mr Sutton.

True the definition of powerful does vary and lets face it no matter how many points or spangly abilities you acquire it always seems that the enemey has just one more than you it's the nature of heroic fantasy.

My biggest concern with the "power-creep" over the years has been the huge increase in life. Everyone seems to want 201 life as it's the best, most consistent way of not getting killed. You want to balance the system between low and high levels. . reduce the total life available and implement some sort of "through" bruising (which I do like the concept of but think it can be done with less drastic impact on the remainder of the system - battleboarding shouldn't be difficult with my proposal) and all of a sudden things will become very different The overall damage could come down (quad does everyone at least 4 damage) high level spells and effects from monsters suddenly become scary again (cause mortal! booo that's half my life) and low levels are automatically closer to the status quo in terms of AC and total life by dint of them all being lower. For a first stab max total life 90 (mages), 120 (scouts/priests), 150 (warriors) with status skills available to up this by 15 life (purchasable twice for a 30 life total gain from cetain guilds - Grey School, Martial Orders, Warriors Guilds as a suggestion).

Hmm today is a slow day

Shaun
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#1264
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
My head hurts with all these suggested rule changes etc......how about we see how things pan out over the course of the year before we go into complete rule change mode.

(stands ontop of a pyre waiting for the torch to be thrown)
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#1265
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 20  
Actually I agree I'd like to see how the year pans out and get as much info as I could especially from new players (which would be most of the low level party from last weekend!). This is purely a theoretical exercise and internet forum trolling for me because I am bored at work. Luckily I have no official HeroQuest rules capacity!

Shaun
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Last Edit: 2009/04/03 15:11 By shaunmcnally.
 
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#1266
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 8  
I wouldn't have different limits for different classes...
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#1267
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 8  
There will be no new version of the rules until very late in the year, possibly beginning of next year so rest assured that we'll see how it goes and adjust accordingly but we have been doing the guild assitance for some time now and the direction the system is moving is not brand new to this year.

Whilst I agree that we need to keep as much of the rules the same I do feel that there's room for improvement as ever its a balance between "if its not broke don't fix it" and "can we do this better"
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#1268
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 5  
I'm of the opinion that the system is not broken and doesn't need fixing. A system that has survived 20+ years must be doing something right. If you want a low-hit / simplified system there is plenty of competition out there, so why not stick to what you do best. Just think of all the benefits it gives you, like the amazing speed you can do your 4 times table or deduct numbers from 201 (sometimes I amaze people at work)

I just think the recent change (unlevelled events)robs players (old and new)of a very entertaining way of enjoying HQ.

If you remove dedicated no-status adventures or adventure weekend overlands, a points/powers arms race becomes inevitable. Most of us are not powergamers but still like to optimise our characters. I don't believe unregulated market forces should be the only way to determine the direction of club that cannot thrive without cooperation, honesty and player goodwill. If a bunch of low levels book on a game, then someone says 'well they won't mind my R30 character joining in, theres only 1 of me', then another one joins in, and so on. So then the others decide to change to their higher level characters etc.

I'm not proposing anything radical, just 1-2 adventure weekend a year billed as 'no status' and a minimum of 4 hours no-status (or low status) overland on each adventure weekend. Then new players could even feed back what they prefer. This could be billed as training, low status to avoid enemy interest, a no-status ward, valley scouts simply assigning resources appropriately. We accept out-of-character instructions all the time to make the game more enjoyable (i.e. walk that direction, not this, otherwise you'll be fighting on the A52).

Sometimes people need to be told whats best for them to have fun
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#1269
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 8  
A system that has survived 20+ years must be doing something right

absolutely - its adapted to survive - the rules today only bear a passing relationship with what they looked like 20 years ago - power & magic as 1 pool of power, skins stacked, no rank 64 rule, no life limit etc etc

I just think the recent change (unlevelled events)robs players (old and new)of a very entertaining way of enjoying HQ.

I agree


I'm not proposing anything radical, just 1-2 adventure weekend a year billed as 'no status'

then your giving people a reason to not come - "I don't have a no status character and don't want to start a new character - I'll find something else to do that weekend" (although it would be nice if they monstered some people just don't monster at all) and then by putting a "only these type of people are welcome this event" you end up turning away paying customers

the reality is that the player base is such that HQ can't afford to and does not want to turn away anyone
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#1270
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 3  
Just a reminder about the weekend.

Why do we have 2 (or more) groups go out on overlands with mixed rank events?
-Because it allows us to throw more 'interesting' things at the higher ranks without concern for the survival of the lower ranked. (Yes, yes only one of the reasons I know - but bear with me).

Why do we mix the 2 groups when it is obvious it is counter to the reasoning of splitting them?
-Because the lower group does not have the necessary resources to counter a given situation.

Usually either power or magic resources.

So why are we not sending them out with an appropriate level of assistance if we're giving the low ranks skins blades dex etc?
Have a low rank Player Ref with a small amount of what they need - you don't do that with higher ranks because that's how it's supposed to play out; however <R15 characters are getting that extra little prop anyway.

I know we've evolved to the point where the Player Ref is strictly non-interference, but surely it's the low rank starting missions where more care is needed.



I love the discussions on here - and it gives us a chance to air our privately and not-so privately held considerations for improvement. Some brilliant and feasible alterations have been put forward; however radically alterring (simplifying) the core of the system mechanics, which as Shaun pointed out is wonderfully complex seems self destructive. Especially where I see more dumbing down in my world every day.
As Pete rightly pointed out though no changes will be implemented without sounding them out; and then of course we have the right to vote for them with our wallets.
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