VKontakte.DJ
forum traveling
Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?
Briefs for Future Events (1 viewing) (1) Guest
Go to bottom Favoured: 0
TOPIC: Briefs for Future Events
#371
Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 7  
A general point, on which I'd be interested to hear other people's input:

I notice that the website now contains information on some of the plot of future events.

While I see some reasons for doing this, e.g. for giving people an idea of what the event will be like, I do have some serious reservations about the way it has been done at present. (The following comments are from the perspective of Darrell _qua_ player only.)

First, and most importantly, some of the briefs seem to presuppose that players have been successful in their missions on events that have not yet happened. But this creates the impression that parties can't really fail in certain respects. (Whether or not this is true, in any given case, I'd prefer as a player _NOT_ to know which aspects of plot are 'pre-ordained', i.e. over which characters have no control.) I will say nothing about event planning here, so let's not get sidetracked onto that issue.

Second, it is actually possible to work out things OOC that you aren't supposed to know IC, as things stand. The players are asked, for example, to work out what Bael is doing on Thranduil as a mission on one event. But some of this is clear from the brief for a different subsequent event. Personally, I would rather _not_ know this sort of information (and it is pretty hard to avoid at the moment). Even though I have no problem roleplaying ignorance, the journey of discovery can be fun IC and OOC simultaneously.

What do others think about all this?

Cheers,

Darrell
darrell (User)
Scrivener
Posts: 429
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
Last Edit: 2009/02/16 21:18 By darrell.
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#392
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 14  
I fully agree, I had exactly the same thought about the Bael thing. But it's a bit of a two edged sword for the Refs. I like knowing what an event is going to be about, and especially with how the new membership schemes work, people will want to plan what events to go on, with what character, ahead of time.

So maybe the briefs need to be paired back slightly to not include deterministic information, to the extent that it's possible to do.

L8R,
Adam.
adamtennant (User)
Pain is your friend
Moderator
Posts: 686
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Mordhaus
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#410
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 8  
Yep this was mentioned by several people on the last event in Feb - as the March event presupposed that the party were successful on the Feb event

I certainly don't advocate railroading or having events with pre-determined endings but we all understand that there is, at best, verisimilitude on events

the whole structure of events is designed as a set of encounters that forsee the party will take a certain course of action and that if this course of events is followed and the party don't fuck up then the outcome of the plot will be "x", if the party fuck up the outcome of the event will be "y"

There is a psychological contract between ref and player to follow the event plot - to some extent this is re-inforced via an in-character wish to complete the mission as set by the guilds - this allows us to write overlands and a sequential series of encounters & the best events have a branching plot structure - if players at encounter A do x then at encounter B y happens...

This is an interesting area that people keep saying that they want consequences and the possibility of failure and I certainly do not offer events with a pre-determined finish, there is always the possiblity of failure but it is unlikley due to the way we currently structure our events.

Its worth exploring how this situation came about - it did not spring fully formed but evolved over many years and maybe only the old lags of the system will remember the fully negative experiences of getting to the end of an event having failed in your mission as well as in the past events were much more adverserial

so in summary the way we write events nowadays, benefitting from experience gained over many years, is that of course the party can fail but we offer every opportunity to not fail as people are generally happier at the end of a successful mission than at the end of an unsuccessful one - therefore success is the most likely (but not the only) outcome on most events

The ongoing "story" has its structure but the way we get there is very much built upon the way events go. The KFW events pre-supposed that they could get information from Ramp but when the party caused his death we created a new way to get the same information - now you could look at this that we fudged it so that the party could still "win" or that we adapted the storyline to fit the new facts....

If the party had failed in their mission on the Feb event then things would have been different for March but it was written that the most likely outcome was such that it allowed the March event to take place as determined in advance - the tension was still there that the party could "easily" have destroyed the Program (and therefore the possibility that the Astral Bridge would never be built) but it was unlikely considering that their mission was to use the "Device" to create the Bridge - this particular mission objective was facilitated by the party but its ultimate success was out of the party's hands (as the specialists were responsible for getting it to work - the party just had to get the specialists there)


Pete
petesutton (User)
Calligraphus
Posts: 797
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#413
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 7  
Thanks for your reply, Pete. My issue is more with the balance of information made freely available in advance, rather than the mechanics of running events (or the reality behind the veil). My point is just that I'd prefer the illusion of more freedom than there actually is.

I know from my experiences as a ref that freedom is limited of necessity, e.g. because of the kit in the bag, the campaign structure as a whole, and so forth. However, it's nice _not_ to know exactly where the freedom to shape the future does or does not exist. I think that maybe that line has been crossed a little on this score.

(At the risk of digressing, I don't think it always has to be a matter of thinking about "X" vs. "Y" in advance of the event itself -- if that's what you were suggesting. If you have enough control over the environment, e.g. because it's sufficiently separated from the main campaign -- take the Sethenia events as a case in point -- then it's possible to make it up as you go along and do a good job. This isn't to say you go completely unprepared, of course, but you write the adventure in this sort of way: specify the groups/people in the area, specify their motivations, specify what would happen in the party weren't there, and then let them interfere. Pat and I have done this successfully on some events, honestly!)

There's another related issue that you don't cover, which is player-generated plot. It might be interesting to discuss this too -- but perhaps in a different thread...
darrell (User)
Scrivener
Posts: 429
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#417
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 8  
Hi Darrel

I've also run some successful "closed environment" events in the past (The Celtic events spring to mind) and it is a valid alternative and creates a different interesting dynamic

Player led plot is a whole other area....

Cheers

Pete
petesutton (User)
Calligraphus
Posts: 797
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#430
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 14  
Is an interesting question and spans IC and OOC.

IC I totally agree, OOC I don't. Experience has shown us that failure to properly advertise an event and encourage it means we don't get as many players. We need to try any get as many players as possible or we will cease running events.

It's really a balance of what we say and ensuring we put enough to encourage people but not too much as to create spoilers. We started with the titles, naming of events and have expanded it to event descriptons.

I have full event descriptions for all events this year, but have avoided putting them up so as not to give too much away. I suspect the answer is to put them up every quarter and tweak as we go.

As with everything we do, some will like it and some won't.

Bruce
bruced (Admin)
null
Admin
Posts: 421
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
null null null null null null Location: null
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#432
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 7  
My plan will be to avoid reading these in future!

Gladly, where they are on the booking page means that you have to scroll down to see them.

It'd be good, though, if a spoiler free brief could be made available above... or if it could just be assumed on the event itself, as it may already be, that not all players will have read the material...

D.
darrell (User)
Scrivener
Posts: 429
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#496
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 4  
So I'm going to sit on the fence.

When I looked at the event descriptions I did find them jarring, especially the deterministic outcomes of future events...

On the other hand, I do understand what Bruce is saying about needing to advertise the theme/focus of an event as this is key to getting players onto the events.

I think that the best solution would be 'rolling' updates to the event descriptions that only harden the past when it has actually occurred IC. That does present the challenge of how to write decent teasers that don't preset the outcomes of future events... but then I'm sure the ref team are talented enough to handle that

Cheers,
Fraser
fraserbohm (User)
Notary
Posts: 140
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#510
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 20  
Well presumeably the KVA plans missions more than a month in advance? Getting the manpower, transportation and stuff together isn't always going to be a case of "grab your casting kit and weapons and lets go" now is it. So the teasers could quite easily be a description or brief from the higher up's about what Valley missions are being sent where and for what purpose. When you arrive and find out that your mission parameters have changed because the pesky KFW let someone run off with the McGuffin again well that just adds to the fun.

So the current description for March assumes we were going to be successful in February _because_ that is how the alliance had to plan it. Contingency plans are no doubt in place but it's be bad for moral to say "if our brave heroes completely bugger the bridge building plan up then we'll do something else instead".

That's my view on it anyway.

Shaun.
shaunmcnally (User)
Calligraphus
Posts: 750
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Shaun shaun.mcnally@hotmail.co.uk Birthdate: 1979-03-14
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
#511
Re:Briefs for Future Events 8 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 8  
I think what Darrell objects to is the fact that you can learn OOC stuff that you couldn't possibly know - one that springs to mind is the conversation between Vere and Agoth for the May one or Bael's soliloquy for Black Orc Down not the fact that we market events so its just a case of style & content....

I think the May HQ one gives a good idea/taster for the event but does not reveal any OOC info? so its not all the event marketing thats at fault?

We can rethink the ones for later in the year and adapt the marketing
petesutton (User)
Calligraphus
Posts: 797
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Logged Logged  
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.  
Go to top

Have you noticed a problem with this website? If so, please e-mail one of our web team, who will fix it
admin@heroquest-larp.co.uk

© Copyright 2009-2014, All Rights Reserved