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TOPIC: Call Clarification (from the membership letter)
#105
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 22  
Don't get me wrong I absolutely think that a call is needed to indicate if people are not affected by blows. What does confuse me is making them IC.

Sorcerers Dispel, Kai, Spiritual Warrior abilties are all resists with specific IC calls required to activate them, if players (or monsters) aren't using them then they are cheating.

Bounce, Dodge, No Effect are calls that don't require any "activation" so just seem OC to me.

However if this is more a set of guidelines as to how you should react meaning that we can taunt monsters in our own special fashion (rather than "my protections aid me" "try again faggot you're far too girly" then I actually heartily approve of the concept.

Now where did I put my empowered silver teaspoon?

Cheers

Shaun.
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#124
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 7  
bruced wrote:
However, as Fraser has said this really applies mostly to monsters, a monster doesn't need to know how a player resisted, just that they did.

Bruce


Without commenting on the IC vs OOC issue:

Shouldn't it cut both ways?

A monster mage should have every opportunity to dispel a character's skin, say. This just leads to more interesting fights, doesn't it?

Cheers,

D.

P.S. And now commenting on the IC vs OOC issue, which I seem to have been unable to resist -- although I haven't been along for God knows how long, I think I get the problem -- I'm not sure I quite understand the argument for IC shouts.

To attempt to reconstruct it, is it that some players, e.g. newer players, don't understand what the existing OOC shouts mean? (I take it that the problem can't just be that these aren't being used. Because then changing them to IC shouts won't necessarily have any effect. Again, they may not be used. In short that's an enforcement issue.) OK. But then couldn't one run a similar argument that 'Time Freeze', 'Time Out', or even 'Firebolt' are equally as impenetrable?

I notice there is a new effects list. So why not just put the OOC calls on there?

Not trying to be difficult; just to understand this one! And now I'll shut up.

P.P.S. Shaun is mentally controlling me.
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#128
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 8  
catch up for Darryl

Some time ago the decision was made to not shout "bounce", "dodge", "no effect" as these were seen to be a lazy way of roleplaying something occurring (or in this case not occurring) with people being encouraged to "act as though they were doing whatever it was that they were doing" i.e. if someone hurts you your supposed to react, if someone throws a spell and your dodging you should act like your dodging etc. People would just stand stock still and say dodge...

This then led to even lazier roleplaying where people didn't have to call anything and didn't do any roleplaying to show if they were or weren't affected by things (both players and monsters)
The proposal is aimed to try and get best of both worlds - encourage roleplaying and have a clear shout

Not entirely convinced by Shaun's argument as the idea is to have something unambiguous so that everyone knows whats going on.

It is an OOC shout given a slight IC spin so that the original problems are addressed - we've tried really hard to eliminate/gloss over OOC stuff happening in Time In as much as possible - some things are a function of what we do and can't be eliminated (damage calls for example) but I for one (and just to clarify this is not my idea but I thoroughly approve) think that its worth making the effort to try to keep OOC to a minimum during Time In and where we cannot then disguise it as much as possible to seem IC

Pete
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#129
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 22  
I've lost track of what my argument is to be honest!

Not entirely convinced by Shaun's argument as the idea is to have something unambiguous so that everyone knows whats going on

Then surely a short OC call is ideal the same way we do for damage calls? To take it to absurd lengths should we start shouting "I shall smite you with the force of eight tigers" instead of Oct?

It seems that the response above means that IC tailoring of these shouts isn't the intent which just feels naff. I wan t to be able to clearly demonstrate that something didn't hurt (saying Bounce in an OOC voice) and then taunt the enemy with a sarcastic "OOoh that really really hurt" (in an in character voice) if I have to respond IC first with "My Protections Aid Me" that just doesn't work.

I'm going to shut up now because I am just being deliberately obtuse.

Shaun
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#130
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 7  
Cheers for explaining, Pete.

I can see the motivation. But equally you would presumably admit that an elemental or zombie saying "I resist you" (or something similar) is going to pull people OOC?

Likewise if a character is paralysed, etc.; and a I can even see this leading to unfortunate situations where incapacitated characters are attacked because they are supposed incorrectly by new/inexperienced monsters, on the basis of their responses, to be functioning.

(A brief aside for an amusing tale. One time I was invoking as Gurthang, and was caught by a monster. 'Oh dear', I thought, 'I hope he doesn't have throatslit!' But strangely, he just stood next to me, watching the fight. I continued to invoke, and completed it after a minute or two. I then became aware of this monster. 'Morgoth hear my call, my body is thy vessel, I summon you forth to cause these mortal wounds and let this person die! A death I require, a killing as of old, a banished soul, a body stiff and cold! Touch of Death!' Another one bit the dust. -- The OOC story was that SFB had told this monster "Don't hit anyone who isn't standing!"

My suggestion would be that a character doesn't have to shout anything if he/she isn't in an IC position to speak. And that monsters use the OOC shouts when they aren't in a position to speak.

A little messy, but it seems natural enough...

Now flame me!

Best,

Darrell
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#136
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 14  
Good idea Shaun - I like the new call for damage! It might even slow some of those blows down

I think we all get the idea of what we are trying to achieve. Don't think we will ever get everyone to agree the IC and OOC route, but we will give it a go and see what develops.

Bruce
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#137
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 12  
Okay, I think I'm convinced but along with Shaun, I've lost the thread a bit here.

I think what being said is that players should come up with their own IC resist "call", appropriate to their character, be it leaping about or rolling off a pithy comment, or whatever. Monsters, likewise, and if you could also give some clue as to why it's not hurting, why that would be jolly helpful, thank you.

Normally-silent monsters make this a bit tricky, it's true, but thinking about it, what's the worst that can happen? The encounter is a bit more paniccy, scary and dare I say "fun?" One of my favourite individual encounters was the Dagor Starglade fight on the Coursair's HQ last year - made fun, I think in no small part, by me having even less of a clue what was going on than I usually do. Paniccy, scary, fun. And it made the eventual victory even more worth it.
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#142
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 3  
Now I know I'm not always the quickest to catch on, but to my mind this ruling isn't to penalise those who are roleplaying appropriately to their vulnerabilities - or lack thereof. As far as I can see this is to catch those of us who who fail to react (and thus clue in the opposition) to an effect or similar.

Seeing as it's a problem that has been reported enough for there to be a general ruling about it - I rather feel that it's up to us to help implement it.

Essentially there's two sorts of attendees to events - those with experiance and those without. Those in the know will for instance will throw in a good couple or more blows - and the experienced opponent will hopefully react appropriately. If it's a silent type - eye contact and a quick shake of the head will usually let the person attacking it know.
That said all these little things rely so much on an innate understanding of how the game 'flows' not just the mechanics of it.

The resist etc. calls are there as Bruce said, more for the monsters to call. For those times when we are having a pants-on-head retarded moment we also have a Player Ref. -who will often catch such situations and ameliorate them.
"By Jove! Yours blows are having no effect on that thing - perhaps you should go over there and help with the zombies."

Understandably the Ref. isn't always there - but as I see it we're trying to establish a good base-line for reactions, something we all want.

Now we can scratch our beards - wherever they are, and say this is right or not; but at some point we need to find what's the best way for the most amount of people to work this.
I'm thinking this is what's happening with these new calls - cos if someone's not reacting other than standing there with an irritated expression on their face - it's a bit rubbish (or it's me playing Nero ).

Don't think we wouldn't complain if nothing was being done either .
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#146
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 8  
"It seems that the response above means that IC tailoring of these shouts isn't the intent which just feels naff."

I have no problem with people making their shouts more in-character for them but it needs to be clearly along the lines of the standard shouts so that thickies and newcomers get it

saying "I laugh at your puny spells" is pretty much the same as "My protections aid me" but if your were a complete noob would you know that? I'd like to think yes but we all know some people are a little slow sometimes

As with all new rules it'll take a while to "bed in" - lets see how it goes on the next few events?

Happy for the Feb event at least to have people shout what they like as long as its a good indication of whats happening

Pete
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#151
Re:Call Clarification (from the membership letter) 8 Years, 9 Months ago Karma: 13  
petesutton wrote:

saying "I laugh at your puny spells" is pretty much the same as "My protections aid me" but if your were a complete noob would you know that? I'd like to think yes but we all know some people are a little slow sometimes

Name three... Am I in those three?

Seb
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