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TOPIC: Low Levels
#1195
Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 5  
Someone else raised this on the weekend, but I thought I'd open it up for debate.

Now adventures are open to all ranks, is there much point in starting a new character, especially if you have higher level characters already?

The weekend just gone was fun to monster. The various party make ups were very different with basics and >1000 point characters in the same group. I think this was decided by the players in character, but I'm not sure. It did throw up some nice possibilities as I noticed experienced characters 'tutoring' newer folk, which is nice for a system based on collaborative effort. The monsters were mostly statted to provide at least a little challenge to the higher level members. The basics were fairly safe as they are difficult to kill (30 blows), but they can't really affect monsters very much. I did wonder if they might be better off running around trying to work out amongst themselves how to kill a 'power one paralysis' ghoul. I was particularly aware that I might be able to kill most 0-100 point characters with a few blows though. I don't know whether they had 'guild assistance' or not, but it isn't going to help you much with 30 life whilst being hit for power 7. I thought it was interesting but I'm not sure its healthy to do it all the time.

What I'm really trying to say is - please don't get rid of the low level adventure, whether it is a non-staused overland on an adventure weekend, or a whole special adventure. I think if you advertised 1-2 special adventures a year as non-statused events you would have no problem getting enough players. I think heroquest is best at the two extremes - on a high level/heroquest with high atmosphere and high stakes or on a low level where having fun is not weighed down by complicated rules and you can fight monsters that won't instantly kill you if you get caught on your own.

I notice that there are not many low level characters booked on the events towards the end of the year. Some of this is explained by experienced players with high level characters planning there year out in advance. But, is there much point bringing out a newish low level on an adventure weekend full of high levels when you could just play 'old faithful' your high level character instead, especially as he can now go on forever by monstering for res credits. Newish players with only a low level character may just monster these games to store up points so they can almost bypass low level to catch up with the high levels.

Overall I think there should be at least some possibility for non-status adventuring (training missions etc) to give new players a balanced experience and stop reliance on >1000 point characters.

Low levels are fun to play and monster!

What does everyone else think?

Craig
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#1196
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 9  
Am in total agreement Craig.

Try setting up a poll?

Rich.
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#1197
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
Like Rich, I wholeheartedly agree.

I see the reasoning behind making most events suitable for multiple ranks, to the extent that this is possible, but likewise think that introducing one or two non-statused _special events_ - in addition, that's to say, to the standard events that already exist - would be a good idea.

Strangely enough, Pete and I were discussing this in the car on the way to the adventure weekend just gone! We were similarly concerned that some people might be discouraged from playing new/different characters. (I do think, though, that this will vary from person to person.)

In the short term, the current regime may indeed encourage more people to play and more often, at least among the existing player base. But what about the long term effects? Even from a purely business-oriented perspective, I think there's a case for taking your suggestion seriously. It's important to encourage new players.

Another thing we discussed is whether there should be so many Heroquests... and as you might guess, we both thought there should be fewer... but I won't open that can of worms now!

Cheers,

Darrell
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#1199
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 20  
Yep the party make-up on the weekend was decided by the characters themselves which seemed to work pretty well.

I too would like to see more "unsupported" low level stuff going on but I am not sure you need entirely seperate events for it. Having IC ordered missions only for those with no status (so you can break orders and take the consequences) could quite easily be run on theme weekends for good long sections but then you also get the benefit of heading back to base for dinner and finding out what the high level/heroes have been up to before (in theory) heading back out on your own none-status activity.

Saying that I do intend to start a new character soon (early next year. . honest!) and it is a little daunting to think how effective you can be on mid-high ranked events especially as mages/priests where your forte relies on limited resources.

Yep I agree on the Heroquest thing, I'd like to see less (1 preferably) but I am guessing the economics running a business comes into play on this one?

Shaun.
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#1201
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 14  
I agree entirely and we are always keen to run different types of events to cater for all. However, we cater to player response - so let's not have a poll, let's act instead and book an event!

We will certainly push to make at least one event each year specifically for lower levels and try to encourage existing players to play new ones. If it works we can try and push this to 2, 3 or more events a year. They can be just as much, if not more fun, than mid - high level events.

Oddly enough about this time last year we had people grumbling that there were not enough mid-high levels for their existing characters and that we should run more - we just can't win!

Anyway, to that end I wish to play my Rank 20 Drow Hospitaller in November this year. Any other low levels want to join me? Lets' see if we can start the ball rolling!

Bruce
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#1202
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 20  
If I could I would but I can't.

How about something for January? Instead of the traditional murder-fest to start the year off start with a fresh-faced bunch of new recruits to start the new year? (who will no doubt promptly get involved in someting suitably. . Januaric).

Shaun - also keen to start someone new.
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#1203
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 14  
Regards the Heroquest thing. They are just the name for our five days and we have always had 2-3 five days, if not more.

We decided that just as much effort goes into running/writing a five day as it does a HQ (well for most refs ) and thought you may as well get the other benefits. We also received a number of complaints about not being able to attend a HQ etc.

However, more than happy not to give out HQ abilities on five days if that is what players want? Or restrict the numbers and just choose one of the five days to be a Heroquest - but no moaning please if it turns out not to be your one! For example this year we would probably declare the October event a HQ and the others as just five days.

Bruce
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#1204
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
bruced wrote:
I agree entirely and we are always keen to run different types of events to cater for all. However, we cater to player response - so let's not have a poll, let's act instead and book an event!

Quite right. Money where the mouth is...

I would be up for it if I were allowed out more often!

D.
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#1205
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 20  
Bruce, you make perfect sense. I now have only one question left. . . what happened to the real Bruce and where is he. I'm not quite sure why I agreed that there were too many HQ's after all it only benefits the party to have more heroes about! Huzzah!
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#1206
Re:Low Levels 8 Years, 6 Months ago Karma: 7  
bruced wrote:
We decided that just as much effort goes into running/writing a five day as it does a HQ (well for most refs ) and thought you may as well get the other benefits. We also received a number of complaints about not being able to attend a HQ etc.

However, more than happy not to give out HQ abilities on five days if that is what players want?


My main worry is characters getting lots and lots of hero abilities in quick succession (e.g. by doing three HQs in a row in one year). That's not how things have been! And indeed it does seem to diminish the importance, historically, of some of the old HQs (which were really, really, tough) and Heroes.

So one option would be to restrict the number of HQ abilities any character can get per year (but otherwise any character can get an HQ ability by playing any 5 day). How's that for an interesting counter proposal? It deals with the worry about not being able to attend a HQ. And people do have the option of playing 5 days as different characters if they want HQ abilities out of them.

I know this might piss a couple of players off, but the _status quo_ may do so too.

What do others think?

Isn't there something a bit wrong, say, with a rank 50 triple hero? Or a rank 80 six times hero?

And won't the new players who achieve this sort of thing lack the sense of achievement that used to go with the title 'Hero'?

(P.S. Note I haven't suggested a figure per year. Also, there are all sorts of ways my suggestion could be moderated... e.g. HQ ability credits could be awarded, but one might only be able to spend a set number per year per character...)

(EDIT: Just for any of the newer players who might be reading, maybe some background might help. Historically, there are probably less than five characters who have ever done three heroquests -- actually I can only think of three. And usually, because of the way things worked, this would have taken at least five years of adventuring to do -- as it wasn't usually possible to get onto every HQ, what with waiting lists and such like. Moreover, HQs were especially challenging in a way that standard 5 days were not necessarily. So in short, being a Thrice Hero, historically in the campaign world, is a really serious deal -- indeed few characters retained enough resurrection chances to manage it. But the way things are changing will tend to alter the perception of the Hero tag IC in a way that seems untrue to campaign history... And I could add that many people once saw HQs as the pinaccle of their characters' careers, and retired those characters afterwards!)
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Last Edit: 2009/04/02 17:36 By darrell.
 
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